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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, rene said:

There's an idea I've always had and I'd like your take on it.

 

It's not that we cultivate to 'store up' chi, which could stagnate, but rather there's an unlimited supply of the universal energy available to constantly flow through us, like water through a pipe, and the amount (trickle or burst) and the nature (sick or healthy) of what flows through is governed by the pipe (us)

 

Did that make sense? 

Whatcha think?

Thanks!

 

 

That is one way it works, but there's always more than one way to skin a cat.  The big question seems to be whether someone can have 'more' energy in themselves, and the answer is yes they can.  Many think that if a person has a lot of energy that it stagnates because energy must always be moving, but that is not the case.  What determines stagnation is how many blockages a person has.  If a person is without much in the way of blockages then they can have a lot of energy, and it is always moving, it moves in them and through them.  It moves in them like in circuits, and it moves through them like a magnetic or electrical field around a power source. like this:

 

phys4_2f_5.png

 

human-heart-energy-field.jpg

 

torusfield.jpg

 

Although it's not as simple as shown in the drawings.

 

This happens to people whether they cultivate or not, and whether they have a lot of energy or not.  Some who are not chi power cultivators but who have fewer blockages and better focussing ability can increase the flow rate, like a bigger pipe, but there is a limit.  It is not unlimited.

 

Those who cultivate chi power in the internal arts train their bodies to flow much more energy, it is a physical kind of body conditioning, which points to that scary word for some - exercise.  Maybe some aren't so afraid of exercise, but if they are going to exercise they might as well do the kind that increase chi power.

 

So, to answer the million dollar question.  Cultivators do have more power, because they can flow more, but that misses the important point because both cultivators and non cultivators of chi power can do it.  Cultivators of power can store huge amounts of energy in their bodies, stored as potential energy.  Like a battery.  Mr. Yueng, who was essentially omniscient, said that people can learn to emit external energy but they can have much more power if they are able to use their own energy.  Notice keyword: "much".  He also said that the bones are able to store energy like batteries.  This is one reason that it is said in the classics, that the bones of the sage or the master are heavy, like steel wrapped in cotton.  Mr Yueng was able to feel the inside of people's bones and could tell if they were dry or juicy.  Juicy being young bones with good marrow, and dry being old bones that are full of fat.  Bones with good marrow can act as batteries, while old bones, full of fat, can not.

 

This is one reason for bone marrow chi kung, although the liars claiming to teach it to the public are generally clueless, or at least they keep their students clueless.  There is only one way to acquire heavier bones, and that is with physical exercise of the right kinds.

Edited by Steve

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Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, rideforever said:

There is little point removing people's problems from them.

They are given for a reason, to learn from ... and if you rob people of their problem ... you prevent them learning.

It is more like inspiration to work on their problems that is useful.

Then they will climb their own mountain.

 

 

Agreed. Actually, until one is willing to let it go, it won’t go anywhere, no matter how much a guru or master may “pull” on it. 

 

In my experience, many times the person has already learned the lesson, and they are ready to “let it go” but cannot for whatever reason.

 

I personally did not know how much I was holding onto until I actually had the space to let it go, and felt the difference. We are used to living in a contracted state in our society. Very few are able to relax enough to let things go, and energy practices are a great way to learn this skill imo. 

Edited by FaXin

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27 minutes ago, rideforever said:

The great teachers like Laozi, Buddha and Jesus were sensitive people with great understanding of the small things of this world.

Pumping more and more and more power into you ... seems like quite the opposite approach, more like people who live on 5 cups of coffee a day as a solution to their lives.

 

There is little point removing people's problems from them.

They are given for a reason, to learn from ... and if you rob people of their problem ... you prevent them learning.

It is more like inspiration to work on their problems that is useful.

Then they will climb their own mountain.

 

 

Nobody can remove another's problems but one can make it easier and faster for someone.

 

To me, working on an issue is about residing in the energy of it, not trying to figure it out in a mental way. So, providing someone with the space and silence to not be so caught up, to have that space to reside and to let of of the issue is very valuable.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Tom said:

Also, a forum is much like a geriatric ward. You can still feel the issues of others within a forum. A forum allows for people to behave and direct anger and fears at others much easier than in person. Years, ago the bums use to overload me with the negative energy from others. Every once in awhile I may feel caught up in someones issue nowadays. To me, it allows me to find my own issues to let go of. It is a means for me to progress along the path.

 

Those in the most need, is exactly where I would want to be.

 

This is a good attitude, but who can judge who is in the most need?  I would say that almost everyone can use some healing no matter how healthy they are.  Maybe ones that are really sick appear the most needy, but maybe someone who can make better use of healing is a relatively healthy healer, who wants to do more.

 

I look at it like this. Do I want to use my energy to heal people who are very sick because they don't want to work on healing themselves, or do I want to use my energy to create powerful healers?  Anyone can stop cultivating and start giving it away at whatever level they wish. but I'm Taoist so I'll present this from the Taoist viewpoint.  Lao Tzu sez:  "first heal yourself, then heal your family, then heal your neighbors, etc"  The important point is 'first heal yourself'.  Just between you and me, I would never get near some reiki healer who didn't have the wherewithall to first make themselves a shining example of health.  Do I want healing energy from someone who is not healthy?  Never!

 

So the goal in Taoism is to first heal yourself, which also means to cultivate chi power,  The more you heal yourself the higher level healing that you can do.  A person can heal themselves to the point of going into remission from cancer. which is low level; all the way to becoming a god, which is high level.  Each level of attainment allows the practitioner to work on higher level people with higher level abilities, which seems more useful to me, personally.  Then there are the Buddhas, who say "The hell with healing, that's their karma, let the other healers play those games."

 

Which brings up the point of karma, 'healers' are generally careless with karma, they are messing with other people's karma, which they are unconcerned about, and at the same time they are screwing up their own karma big time.

 

Lastly, being Taoist, I cultivate because the goal is to be an immortal, and that was my goal before I ever heard of Taoism or of immortals.  If a person keeps giving energy away, or 'sharing' energy, they limit their progress and will not become immortals.  However there are some schools which condone energy vampirism or energy taking in order to assist themselves on the path of immortal.

 

 

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29 minutes ago, Steve said:

 

This is a good attitude, but who can judge who is in the most need?  I would say that almost everyone can use some healing no matter how healthy they are.  Maybe ones that are really sick appear the most needy, but maybe someone who can make better use of healing is a relatively healthy healer, who wants to do more. [/quote]

 

I was using your example of a geriatric center and a place you wouldn't want to share energy. To me it is being open to everyone, those seeking and those not seeking. Just let the light shine.

 

29 minutes ago, Steve said:

 

I look at it like this. Do I want to use my energy to heal people who are very sick because they don't want to work on healing themselves, or do I want to use my energy to create powerful healers?  Anyone can stop cultivating and start giving it away at whatever level they wish. but I'm Taoist so I'll present this from the Taoist viewpoint.  Lao Tzu sez:  "first heal yourself, then heal your family, then heal your neighbors, etc"  The important point is 'first heal yourself'.  Just between you and me, I would never get near some reiki healer who didn't have the wherewithall to first make themselves a shining example of health.  Do I want healing energy from someone who is not healthy?  Never! [/quote]

 

I am not a big reiki fan because it is more local mind based. As far as helping others my view is this.

 

9. Jesus said, "Look, the sower went out, took a handful (of seeds), and scattered (them). Some fell on the road, and the birds came and gathered them. Others fell on rock, and they didn't take root in the soil and didn't produce heads of grain. Others fell on thorns, and they choked the seeds and worms ate them. And others fell on good soil, and it produced a good crop: it yielded sixty per measure and one hundred twenty per measure."

 

 

29 minutes ago, Steve said:

 

So the goal in Taoism is to first heal yourself, which also means to cultivate chi power,  The more you heal yourself the higher level healing that you can do.  A person can heal themselves to the point of going into remission from cancer. which is low level; all the way to becoming a god, which is high level.  Each level of attainment allows the practitioner to work on higher level people with higher level abilities, which seems more useful to me, personally.  Then there are the Buddhas, who say "The hell with healing, that's their karma, let the other healers play those games."[/quote]

 

To me sickness is a result of ones obstructions. Remove the obstruction and you heal yourself and others.

 

I believe you should work on the lower and the higher, one is not better than the other.

 

29 minutes ago, Steve said:

 

Which brings up the point of karma, 'healers' are generally careless with karma, they are messing with other people's karma, which they are unconcerned about, and at the same time they are screwing up their own karma big time.

 

Lastly, being Taoist, I cultivate because the goal is to be an immortal, and that was my goal before I ever heard of Taoism or of immortals.  If a person keeps giving energy away, or 'sharing' energy, they limit their progress and will not become immortals.  However there are some schools which condone energy vampirism or energy taking in order to assist themselves on the path of immortal.

 

 

 

We just come from different traditions. I get some traditions believe they have to hold on to energy to propel themselves. To me it is ever flowing, holding on is ego, just be and let it flow.

 

CHAPTER 10
Carrying body and soul, can you become like a new born babe?
Ever supple and yielding, but with a firm grip on life.
Purifying the Primal Vision, can you be without stain?
Loving all things, can you rule without cleverness?
Can you be like Heaven and play the role of the Woman?
Understanding and being open to all things,
are you able to do nothing and follow the flow?
Giving birth and nourishing,
bearing, yet not possessing,
working, yet not taking credit,
leading ,but not dominating.
For this is Primal Virtue.

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22 hours ago, Steve said:

Lastly, being Taoist, I cultivate because the goal is to be an immortal, and that was my goal before I ever heard of Taoism or of immortals.  If a person keeps giving energy away, or 'sharing' energy, they limit their progress and will not become immortals.  However there are some schools which condone energy vampirism or energy taking in order to assist themselves on the path of immortal.

 

One of the big reasons I gave up Medical Qigong was seeing that it can exhaust the practitioner, however energetically healthy they are... then a few years later we heard about that one famous guy who died (sorry... forget the name).

 

With Light Practices, it is definitely easier to experience than listen to an explanation but as Tom said, one is sharing presence and thus not one's own energy. There is nothing to 'exhaust' but only a broader expanse is offered to another to be in an energetic space larger than they can support on their own.  So it is more residing (being One with) with this energy space.   One isn't building up their energy but getting rid of stuff that attaches and causes energy to be more sticky, if you will.   That is my example of Qigong energy as it is more coarse in a way due to the human energy aspect.

 

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Posted (edited)
On 8/12/2019 at 1:35 PM, Tom said:

We just come from different traditions. I get some traditions believe they have to hold on to energy to propel themselves. To me it is ever flowing, holding on is ego, just be and let it flow.

 

 

In the Taoist internal arts holding on to energy isn't some thing we do to propel ourselves.  We cultivate energy because we're hedonistic chi junkies that like to bask in the glow of strong energy.  It's also because it's one of those paths which have a goal of some kind in order  to get you to meditate a lot.  It's a game, it's a contest, and if you don't like to play games that's fine too.  I just happen to like this feeling I get from being saturated full of nice pure clean  energy.  Also, I share energy with students so I'm giving it away too.

 

In any case I think we might be talking about different kinds of energies.  This group mind thing you speak of, which I have no experience with, seems to me like more of a spiritual/psychic connection that people can feel and cultivate, even over long distances.  The kind of energy we cultivate to 'hold on to', as you say is more like an electrical/magnetic feeling and flow that can generate a lot of heat, in ourselves, and in others.  For example I was scanning my wife's belly to check where she had a little pain and she said "Ouch, it's hot!"  So, if I wanted to join the circus I could put on shows like this guy (although it looks like his energy is a bit wimpy due to the shows he does):

 

 

But we're in luck, because here we have Mr. David, who appears to have seen this kind of thing from both sides!

 

5 hours ago, david said:

 

 

One of the big reasons I gave up Medical Qigong was seeing that it can exhaust the practitioner, however energetically healthy they are... then a few years later we heard about that one famous guy who died (sorry... forget the name).

 

With Light Practices, it is definitely easier to experience than listen to an explanation but as Tom said, one is sharing presence and thus not one's own energy. There is nothing to 'exhaust' but only a broader expanse is offered to another to be in an energetic space larger than they can support on their own.  So it is more residing (being One with) with this energy space.   One isn't building up their energy but getting rid of stuff that attaches and causes energy to be more sticky, if you will.   That is my example of Qigong energy as it is more coarse in a way due to the human energy aspect.

 

 

So would you say that this group empathic/pychic energy sharing that is done is working with the same kind of energy that we cultivate for chi power?

Edited by Steve

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1 hour ago, Steve said:

 

In the Taoist internal arts holding on to energy isn't some thing we do to propel ourselves.  We cultivate energy because we're hedonistic chi junkies that like to bask in the glow of strong energy.

 

I am with you here :)

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2 hours ago, Steve said:

In any case I think we might be talking about different kinds of energies.  This group mind thing you speak of, which I have no experience with, seems to me like more of a spiritual/psychic connection that people can feel and cultivate, even over long distances.  The kind of energy we cultivate to 'hold on to', as you say is more like an electrical/magnetic feeling and flow that can generate a lot of heat, in ourselves, and in others. ....
So would you say that this group empathic/pychic energy sharing that is done is working with the same kind of energy that we cultivate for chi power?

 

David will probably get back with a reply, but I can tell you my experience with solo cultivation and group work. The energy of solo cultivation is magnetic and occasionally electrical, and I'm totally addicted to it. The energy in the group work often starts with that kind of energy, which we call "flows"... but then, at least for me, and in a good "dive," the energy rises and starts to feel bigger and more spacious, and the sense of movement or flows usually disappears (at least for me) giving way to a huge spacious silence... 

I think it's all the same energy, but at different frequencies. Hopefully others here will share their take on it. 

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13 hours ago, JadeSun said:

+++

can you expand more on what you mean by Light practices? Never heard of this.

 

Here is a nice Q&A about it.

 

 

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14 hours ago, Steve said:

 

In the Taoist internal arts holding on to energy isn't some thing we do to propel ourselves.  We cultivate energy because we're hedonistic chi junkies that like to bask in the glow of strong energy.  It's also because it's one of those paths which have a goal of some kind in order  to get you to meditate a lot.  It's a game, it's a contest, and if you don't like to play games that's fine too.  I just happen to like this feeling I get from being saturated full of nice pure clean  energy.  Also, I share energy with students so I'm giving it away too.

 

In any case I think we might be talking about different kinds of energies.  This group mind thing you speak of, which I have no experience with, seems to me like more of a spiritual/psychic connection that people can feel and cultivate, even over long distances.  The kind of energy we cultivate to 'hold on to', as you say is more like an electrical/magnetic feeling and flow that can generate a lot of heat, in ourselves, and in others.  For example I was scanning my wife's belly to check where she had a little pain and she said "Ouch, it's hot!"  So, if I wanted to join the circus I could put on shows like this guy (although it looks like his energy is a bit wimpy due to the shows he does):

 

 

But we're in luck, because here we have Mr. David, who appears to have seen this kind of thing from both sides!

 

 

So would you say that this group empathic/pychic energy sharing that is done is working with the same kind of energy that we cultivate for chi power?

 

No, what we do is much different.

 

Think of it like with the realization of the Light there is no me sending energy to you. You are within me and it is more of a sharing of my being which can be felt as energy/silence/etc..

 

The group stuff is something that people really like, as it takes one deeper than they currently are. What is more powerful is really the 1 on 1 work. The group stuff while powerful really comes secondary to the 1 on 1 work.

 

We have an energy channel in chat. I have told people before that can feel energy to just go into the channel and see how it feels. Many immediately feel energy flowing through them and silence, an easing of the burdens of the day. In the past people would just hang out in the chat room who would never work with us. Just open the room on the computer and chill for hours.

 

@Cheya and @Trish can speak to this.

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12 hours ago, Cheya said:

David will probably get back with a reply, but I can tell you my experience with solo cultivation and group work. The energy of solo cultivation is magnetic and occasionally electrical, and I'm totally addicted to it. The energy in the group work often starts with that kind of energy, which we call "flows"... but then, at least for me, and in a good "dive," the energy rises and starts to feel bigger and more spacious, and the sense of movement or flows usually disappears (at least for me) giving way to a huge spacious silence... 

I think it's all the same energy, but at different frequencies. Hopefully others here will share their take on it. 

 

Re: Same Energy or not:   It is a no and yes...  because it depends on the level (or expanse) one is residing in.  I might think of it like ripples in a pond moving outward.  That is the same wave but each ripple is bigger/wider.   And its like moving into purer energy because it shifts from less human energy effort to more universal. 

 

When I say 'universal' do I mean the energy of the universe?    IMO, not quite.  I see the universe energy as something Qigong, Medical Qigong, Reiki folks access.  This is still more primordial unity of energy (the energy behind the energy curtain).

 

Folks can experience it quite differently from no feeling to good feeling to shaking up emotions, memories and dreams.   It depends how 'open' one is, particularly their heart [energy] because it will interact with the 'source', in a sense.   So the experience can vary.    But as Tom has said, the process is not one of accumulation [of energy] but releasing [of self], if one can take self as a composite of energy, body, cultural underpinnings, obstructive interactions of life.  

 

A few comments:

- Is this the end all ?   Not really just a path of Light that cannot be access without another who is Light.  So one doesn't really get there alone because their residing in the larger space is what gets another there.   But the Light path can lead one to a choice of a kind of immortality vs returning [to help in the future].

- Does one stop anything else they are doing?  No.  Some continue with whatever they are doing and find openness transfers to their own practices too.   I would say most seem to eventually stop their other practices if what they feel is that the Light path opens them in a way another doesn't... but not necessary.

- Is there some kind of 'power' that comes with this?  This is a kind of yes and no.   Yes as one enters a space they have never been within before.  In unity, there is no separation of time or space.   Interactions with Deities, past lives, history is possible.  Some feel it or see it or sense it.   You can 'find' each other on this kind of matrix.   For example: there are several in the Light group who if they send me a message, I get a ping in my body.   The 'no' part is, the more we desire anything the more resistance to Light to clear such ideas.   I might say, that is why some have said it is more akin to returning to emptiness. 

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5 hours ago, Tom said:

We have an energy channel in chat. I have told people before that can feel energy to just go into the channel and see how it feels. Many immediately feel energy flowing through them and silence, an easing of the burdens of the day. In the past people would just hang out in the chat room who would never work with us. Just open the room on the computer and chill for hours.

 

@Cheya and @Trish can speak to this.

 

When Cheya first told me about the chat room - this is the chat before the Slack chat - I won't say that I didn't believe her, but she's a much more advanced energy practitioner than I'll ever be, and what she was saying seemed a little fantastical. I became a believer when she linked me to the site and I was able to experience it for myself and started interacting with the people here. I was one of those folks who would just go sit in the channel and soak it in, or do practices in the energy of chat. The Energy channel in Slack is similar to the original chat.

 

I haven't done cultivation practices outside of some basic tai chi, so I don't know that I'm qualified to compare and contrast the energies. In my limited experience tai chi generates a localized energetic experience, while a dive or one on one work creates more of an ocean of energy of which I am a part.

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